Three Little Words

Well, you can be tentative and hope for a little cooperation:

"If I let myself, it would be very easy to fall in love with you. How would you feel about that?"

If she's feelin' you, too; you could probably tell her at any time. Just don't be too eager. If you show just how excited you are while you're saying it, you'll come off as a real goofball.

Ladies prefer to hear what the want to her FROM WHOM they want to hear it. That's the important part. So, if you think she's in this relationship for the long haul, I say go for it.

Were you good friends with her for the initial year? Did you have you long talks with her during that time? Or were you just kind of casual friends, who knew the same people and went to the same parties, and enjoyed each other's company?

If it's the former, then you probably don't need to wait. A close friendship is essentially a form of love anyway, so it's not a particularly big leap from that to romantic love. And after a month isn't a particularly short amount of time if you were already close before that.

But if you weren't that close before, then you've just got to try and read the signals that she's giving you. She's probably working diligently to make it clear whether she's ready or not. Unfortunately, most women aren't intelligent enough to realize that most men aren't intelligent enough to pick up on their damnably subtle signals. And naturally, the idea of just saying what they mean would never occur to them.

If you pay close attention though, you can probably pick up the gist of it.

In Response to markdf (#40329):

...most women aren't intelligent enough to realize that most men aren't intelligent enough to pick up on their damnably subtle signals...

I would have to slightly disagree on this one point. Making a personal connection can be intimidating regardless of how well, or long you've known someone. Revealing something intimate about yourself that the other person didn't know before doesn't always get easier.

I think both men and women tend to hide behind certain indirectnesses (for lack of a better term) to protect themselves from rejection and success in the same instant. Then, blame the other for it being so difficult.

For example (exaggerated scenario ahead) - [An attractive (not covergirl material, but still reasonably hot) woman walks up to you (presumably a man, for the sake of this post).

"Hi, my name is ___. I think you're cute and would like to take you home and screw like rabbits for a few hours."]

In the face of that level of forwardness, most people are turned off. Some even shut down completely. Yet, I'm sure most people wish it were just that simple.

Even if they've been together for years, and one wants to explore something new with the other; revealing an even deeper level of oneself can be stressful.

I think it's also important for this guy to realize that on some level he is acknowledging that he wants more from this relationship. All he needs to do now is find out if the two of them are on the same page.

In Response to TheOriginalJes (#40373):

In the face of that level of forwardness, most people are turned off. Some even shut down completely. Yet, I'm sure most people wish it were just that simple.

It IS that simple, for women anyway. In actual tests, in which young women approached men and said almost exactly what you're describing, about 30% agreed.

Women assume that men are just as disgusted by honesty as they are, but it's not true. For the most part, men appreciate forwardness and react quite well to it.

In Response to markdf (#40377):

Somewhere around here I have a button that says:

 FLIRT HARDER -
I'M AN ENGINEER

Women do seem to pick up vibes better than men, but this doesn't always help them (or us). Both times I've been engaged, women seemed to pick up on this, even though AFAIK I didn't purposely send out any signals. They just knew, and it seemed to work like catnip as far as my desirability to them was concerned. It can be very disconcerting to suddenly have women coming on to you when you're not in a position to do anything about it. (I really hope that wasn't the reason they did it -- that would indicate a level of casual deviousness and sadism that I'm not prepared to deal with.)

Female modes of communication can seem very strange to men. Deborah Tannen's book You Just Don't Understand! can be a real eye-opener. (Her take on talking about problems is a great example. When a woman tells you she has a problem, she often doesn't want you to fix it, she wants you to sympathize with her.)

In Response to markdf (#40377):

...In actual tests, in which young women approached men and said almost exactly what you're describing, about 30% agreed. --- For the most part, men appreciate forwardness and react quite well to it...

How exactly is 30% equal to the most part? That's a good bit less than half. Wouldn't other 70% would represent "most people" in this equation?

In Response to TheOriginalJes (#40409):

How exactly is 30% equal to the most part? That's a good bit less than half. Wouldn't other 70% would represent "most people" in this equation?

Given that the other 70% represents guys who were in monogamous relationships, guys who didn't find the women attractive, guys who simply aren't into casual sex with complete strangers, guys who are gay, and guys who were too busy at the time... 30% is ridiculously high. Think about that -- 30% agreed to fuck a complete stranger that just approached them off the street. That's huge.

In the same test, exactly 0 of women (out of about 300 asked) said yes to young men.

And yet lots of those women would be perfectly willing to be seduced by a stranger in a bar or at a club. As long as there's pretense and deception, women are right there with you. But the moment you try to be honest with them, you're completely fucked. Or NOT fucked, in this particular case. :P

In Response to markdf (#40422):

--Given that the other 70% represents guys who were in monogamous relationships, guys who didn't find the women attractive, guys who simply aren't into casual sex with complete strangers, guys who are gay, and guys who were too busy at the time... 30% is ridiculously high. Think about that -- 30% agreed to fuck a complete stranger that just approached them off the street. That's huge. --

That's irrelevant is what it is. Any statistic has mitigating factors. Does it also discuss where these "tests" were performed? What kind of environment? What time of day? How many men were tested? Did they know it was a test? Can you verify the basis for their (the men's) answers?

--And yet lots of those women would be perfectly willing to be seduced by a stranger in a bar or at a club. As long as there's pretense and deception, women are right there with you. But the moment you try to be honest with them, you're completely fucked. Or NOT fucked, in this particular case. :P {As long as there's pretense and deception,}--

Thank you for making my original point. She's going to see and hear what she wants, from whom she wants. So, he just has to find out where she stands.

In Response to TheOriginalJes (#40427):

If you're curious about the study, check it out for yourself.

Gender Differences in Receptivity to Sexual Offers
Journal of Psychology & Human Sexuality, Volume 2, Issue 1. Published 08/07/1989.

Oh, and it turns out I was wrong. It was actually 75% of men who agreed (and 0 women). See what I mean about men responding well to openness and honesty? And women's complete and utter contempt for the same?

In Response to markdf (#40435):

It turns out that I couldn't locate it at my local library, and I'm not willing to pay $12.99 for it online. What other studies can you recommend? If none, would you please list the answers to the questions I listed earlier?

Thanks.

In Response to TheOriginalJes (#40527):

1. Does it also discuss where these "tests" were performed? What kind of environment?
2. What time of day?
3. How many men were tested?
4. Did they know it was a test?
5. Can you verify the basis for their (the men's) answers?

1. Florida State University, in 1978 and again in 1982.

2. During school hours.

3. Russel Clark's entire class was out propositioning members of the opposite sex for hours at a time, so suffice to say, a LOT.

4. Of course not.

5. Yes. The men, being fans clear and open communication, stated their reasons. Eg: "no, sorry, I'm married."

Science is great that way. It ruthlessly crushes the irrational beliefs that we hold, and only the truth -- no matter how pleasant or unpleasant we may find it to be -- remains.

In this case, that truth is that men respond EXTREMELY well to openness. Vagueness and needless subtlety are truly contemptible qualities.

In Response to markdf (#40553):

I'll give it to you for this study. That is interesting.

(Although I forgot to ask if the men doing the asking were considered attractive. Unless it was a class full of pick-up artists.)

In Response to markdf (#40553):

However, on a side note; psychology isn't exactly an imperical science of absolutes. I'd be interested in comparing these results with any similar studies taken in alternate situations.

In explanation:

The one you've listed probably targets mostly people of 18-23+/- years of age (assuming approximate enrollment ages at the University). The men are in their sexual prime (and nowhere near their full intellectual and emotional maturity); and the women won't peak sexually for another 20 years.

When you change the location and time-of-day, the target group changes. Like a supermarket, Wal-Mart, or public library after 6 pm.

In Response to TheOriginalJes (#40559):

Actually, most psychological and biological research indicates that women reach their sexual peak (in terms of promiscuity, fertility, and number of partners) at around 17-25.

Or are you honestly suggesting that 19 year old women are less likely than 39 year olds to bed a random stranger who propositions them?

As for whether the men were attractive -- well, the group conducting the test consisted of an entire psychology class. The men should represent a normal cross-section of college-aged men, just like the women. In my experience, college-aged men are at the peak of their physical attractiveness ... although they generally don't have the wealth and affluence that it takes to make seduction a sure thing.

In Response to markdf (#40656):

--Or are you honestly suggesting that 19 year old women are less likely than 39 year olds to bed a random stranger who propositions them? --

Not exactly. It's not 19 yo. women vs. 39 yo. women. It's 19 yo. men & women vs. 39 yo. men & women. Age is just what we use as an approximator for maturity levels in life. How one lives their life is greatly effected by the level of responsibility one must maintain. Like paying the mortage vs. maintaining a GPA.

I'm not even attempting to detract from the study you've presented. I'm conseding your point there. I'm just posing a question of a side-by-side study based on emotional and intellectual maturity.

Yes, college kids will have sex (on average) way more than adults. I'm just saying that (I believe) the study would have far different results if performed among people with real-world responsibilities that don't generally have mom & dad to fall back on.

So, how would horny college kids compare with people who have learned that they must deal with their own consequences? (And, let's not pretend that being in college automatically makes one responsible and self-aware. We've been there and know better.)

In Response to TheOriginalJes (#40774):

So, how would horny college kids compare with people who have learned that they must deal with their own consequences? (And, let's not pretend that being in college automatically makes one responsible and self-aware. We've been there and know better.)

You're completely missing the point. Even immature promiscuous college girls who have mommy and daddy to fall back on and no real responsibilities to worry about -- even they are so phenomenally disgusted by honesty that they'll turn down an offer for casual sex. When it comes down to a honest proposal, 19 year old women respond EXACTLY the same way as 39 year old women. And 19 year old men respond EXACTLY the same way as 39 year old men. Men and women's instinctual responses to sex have been fixed and frozen in place by the time they've grown their first batch of pubic hair.

Keep in mind, in the very same study, 50% of those girls agreed to go on a date with the male researchers. Yet 0% would agree to sex.

Women WANT the deceit. They WANT lies and falsehood. That's how the game is played, and evolution has programmed most women to despise anyone who tries to circumvent the elaborate system of bluff, posturing, and pretentiousness.

In Response to TheOriginalJes (#40774):

So, how would horny college kids compare with people who have learned that they must deal with their own consequences? (And, let's not pretend that being in college automatically makes one responsible and self-aware. We've been there and know better.)

You're completely missing the point. Even immature promiscuous college girls who have mommy and daddy to fall back on and no real responsibilities to worry about -- even they are so phenomenally disgusted by honesty that they'll turn down an offer for casual sex. Slutty and promiscuous as they are, they have no interest in sex unless it comes wrapped in lies and falsehood.

When it comes down to a honest proposal, 19 year old women respond EXACTLY the same way as 39 year old women. And 19 year old men respond EXACTLY the same way as 39 year old men. Men and women's instinctual responses to sex have been fixed and frozen in place by the time they've grown their first batch of pubic hair.

Keep in mind, in the very same study, 50% of the female subjects agreed to go on a date with the male researchers. Yet NONE ever said yes to sex.

Women WANT the deceit. They WANT lies and falsehood. That's how the game is played, and evolution has programmed most women to despise anyone who tries to circumvent the elaborate system of bluff, posturing, and pretentiousness.

In Response to markdf (#40807):

No, you're missing the point.

A college campus does not give a complete cross-section of all walks of life and people.

In my college days (age 18-22), I was hit-on by more older women (25-40) than college-aged girls. Just for sex! I can't be the only guy to experience that. But, these incidents didn't occur on campus. It happened at the mall, at work, and at the supermarket.

You can't say that one study on school grounds represents all women and men everywhere. But you seem to be trying.