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POLL RESULTS: And The Hits Keep On Coming...: (30 comments)
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POLL: And The Hits Keep On Coming...

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:00 AM

A reader writes... Q: Is there such a thing as domestic abuse of a husband? Six times in the three years we’ve been married my wife has struck me. She has a terrible temper. She breaks dishes, throws them at me and hits me with her fists. I am bigger and stronger and able to fend her off. I have never hit her back. These rages are most often provoked by jealousy. I have many women friends, but I have been true to my wife. She refuses to get anger-management counseling and says her outbursts are hormonal. She says she loves me and seems genuinely sorry after these attacks. But I am worried she may hurt me or, worse, that I will have to hurt her in self-defense.
POLL: What should he do
 
55% (888) Leave. Now.
 
36% (594) Keep trying to get her to counseling.
 
2% (39) Encourage her to take a boxing class.
 
0% (11) Try not to be around when she gets angry.
 
4% (77) Wear a cup.
1609 people have voted in this poll. (This poll is not active.)
CasualNotice
Lover

Posts: 49

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Jun 2008
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:13 AM (#49655)

Abuse is abuse, and she is following a classic abuse pattern. Leave now, and if you still want to be with her later, make sure that she gets therapy for her anger issues before you do.


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reynoldsrap
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Apr 2008
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:14 AM (#49656)

While men-on-women domestic abuse is reported on fairly extensively (rightly so, and I dare say that it should be reported on even further to raise awareness), women-on-men abuse is completely ignored by the media. Take a look at the media: in a show, when a man hits a woman, it's seen as abuse. When a woman hits a man, he deserved it or it's humorous.

I was in a relationship with a girl for over a year that abused me emotionally and physically when I was a senior in high school. I'm a pretty big guy, but not once did I ever hit her back. She would leave welts and bruises on my arm, and I just accepted it because I thought that it was alright.

But it wasn't. Men aren't the only ones who abuse their partners. And men are also less likely to seek help for a variety of reasons (being perceived as weak, not sure if it's something that's a big deal). If you hit her six times in three years, every woman the world over would tell her to leave you, and rightfully so.

Hormones aren't an excuse to be abusive. I don't care how bad your hormones get; there is NO excuse for hurting the ones you love. She needs anger management therapy, and you two need counseling. If she won't agree to that, then you should leave.


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quixotecoyote
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May 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:38 AM (#49658)
In Response to reynoldsrap (#49656):

This is the easiest question in a while.

The hitting has to stop or the relationship is over.

If she's not willing to take the steps to stop it, it's over now.


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Murgatroyd
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:51 AM (#49659)

These rages are most often provoked by jealousy. ... She refuses to get anger-management counseling and says her outbursts are hormonal.

Perhaps aggravated by hormones, but triggered by events.

She's choosing to let herself go. And she's continuing to do it because she can.

She needs an ultimatum: Either she gets counseling, or you leave. Prove you're serious -- don't back down.

She says she loves me and seems genuinely sorry after these attacks. But I am worried she may hurt me or, worse, that I will have to hurt her in self-defense.

Let's take her word for it -- assume she's "hormonal" ... What's to prevent her from working herself into a rage over some real or imagined slight, and then stabbing you while you're asleep?

BTW, before you give her an kind of ultimatum, write down a history of what's been going on and give the document to a trusted friend. It could be useful if there's ever a coroner's inquest.


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Stevarooni
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From: KCMO

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Jun 2008
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 01:09 AM (#49663)

Leave. Now. Yes, women can abuse men. The bonus is that as a man, self-defense is not an option. You deserve to be in a relationship with a woman who:

  1. Respects you
  2. Trusts you until and unless you give her reason not to trust her; having friends doesn't count as a just cause for jealousy
  3. Doesn't hurt you
  4. Doesn't make excuses about her problems
  5. Doesn't hurt you
The "hormonal" excuse is despicable. Get out before you have to defend yourself (and inevitably end up charged by a sexist justice system that will be mostly blind to the possibility that a man has to defend himself against a woman). Just the same, if you still feel you love her too much to leave without giving it one more chance...go somewhere where you can be safe, and demand that she seek counseling before you'll take her back.


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sahman
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Oct 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 01:24 AM (#49665)

I think the overwhelming majority of these posts show one thing: This relationship will not work, unless something is changed drastically. It's following the same pattern as other abusive relationships, regardless of gender. Buildup, Aggression, honeymoon. The buildup, which you make no mention of other than it's about jealousy, the aggression, which is the violent part, and the honeymoon, "I'll never do it again. I'm sorry." Yea, how many times have you heard this? Do yourself a favor. Get out. Bring a friend over to help gather your things. document everything. and contact a lawyer. Do you really think that in one of those hormonal rages you will even have to *push* her away? she calls the cops and YOU get put in jail. It's not worth it. Don't wait for the next outburst. stop playing defense. stop worrying about what other people are going to think and get the F*** out of there.

Domestic abuse is domestic abuse. If she rages before you can get out, go to a friends, and call the cops. perhaps if she won't go to counseling on her own the court can make her.


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simplysly
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 03:17 AM (#49667)

As said by others, this is abuse. Leave.

You said that you're worried that she will hurt you or that you'll have to hurt her. Here's the other thing: people who abuse someone they "love" will also do it to others.

She does it because of "hormones". Why do they only come out around you? Are you sure they do? What if she hits someone else? Someone who isn't "bigger and stronger and able to fend her off".

She needs anger management counseling, and, for it to work, she has to want it. So, either the threat of your leaving is enough motivation for her to wake up, or she doesn't love you as much she says she does.

Ultimately, her reactions are her responsibility. That doesn't mean that you have to pay if she refuses to take said responsibility.


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Caffeine
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 05:59 AM (#49671)

Of course men can be abused in a relationship, too. Emotionally as well as physically. But it seems many of them seem to be ashamed and never speak about it in public (and only few will do so even among close friends).

It doesn't matter whether you could defend yourself and don't do it for fear of hurting her.

Leave her.

Simple as that.

If she has her temper fits and makes you suffer (emotionally and physically) - with or without reason - she does not respect you the way you deserve. No one (I will repeat this, and I am a woman, thus "hormonally charged" - NO ONE) is at the mercy of their hormones or instincts or whatever it is they claim.

She should get a grip on herself and not act like a spoiled child. Women are no helpless people without rights (anymore), so they don't have to use violence to defend themselves.

And you should leave her. Just to prove to yourself that you deserve better. And that you can do without her.


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Attocs
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 09:46 AM (#49675)

I know this is going to get me in trouble with a lot of people out there but what the heck. My MOTHER taught at a very young age "If she is man enough to hit you, you are woman enough to hit her back."

With that said I was with someone that after about 4 years of being with her, started to hit me when she got mad at me. I am no small guy, but she was no small woman with an active job that kept her fit and strong. These hits did hurt. I started to warn her that she needs to stop. After the 3rd time of warning her, I did pop her back. With a lot less force then the hit I recieved but hard enough to let her know I ment it. After the shock of what had happened abated, we went through the whole "you should never hit a woman only" argument. BUT she never hit me again.


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Username2
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 09:51 AM (#49676)

I'm repeating what a lot of others have said, so I'm not adding much to the conversation sadly. That being said, I have friends who are attorneys who have told me stories like yours countless times. Abuse of this kind is real and from everything I've been told it always ends poorly for the man.

If you stay with her, one of a couple things will happen. First is she kills you in a fit of rage (or you kill her in self defense). Second option is that she will get to the point where you will be forced to defend yourself and either she will call the cops or you will. Either way the cops are arresting you even though you are the one dripping blood with the huge gash across your face. Why? Because she has a small bruise on her arms where you tried to hold on to her so she would stop hitting you with a golf club (sadly I hear this story about once every two weeks from my friends but replace golf club with whatever happens to be on hand). The third option is you have kids and she transfers that anger and rage to them in one form or another (very common actually).

If you can't tell, there is no good option here. And since she is not willing to get help, I would suggest leaving the relationship. Unless of course you would prefer to be either in jail, have your children battered (and potentially taken away from you), or simply wind up dead.


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mechgogo
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Jun 2008
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:37 AM (#49677)

Ok, this is coming from a former abuserand abuse survivor so pay close attention m'kay. HITTING YOUR PARTNER OUTSIDE THE CONTEXT OF A CAREFULY NEGOTIATED AND FULLY CONSENTUAL BDSM RELATIONSHIP IS FUCKING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. PERIOD DOT END.

Heres the deal; just because you're a pointer and she's a sitter doesn't make it ok. NOTHING makes it ok to hit your spouse in anger. NOTHING. First thing you do, sit her down and tell her "You are done hitting me. Next time it happens we are getting a visit from the cops and you WILL go to jail." . If you have any current marks from recent assaults-and thats what they are is assaults- get pics taken and make a journal of the context in which they occured. Then, if she hits you again call the cops and use the words "I need to report a case of domestic violence. I need police pressence at [your address] ." Then FUCKING FOLLOW THROUGH AND PRESS CHARGES.

If you want to save the relationship insist on counseling. Make it clear that this is a deal-breaker. No counseling no relationship. Period. And make it clear that she gets ONE and ONLY ONE more time to hit you. First time you send her to jail. Second time you send her BACK to jail and when she gets out her shit is in storage and you two are OH-VAR.

Man or woman IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. When you are in a loving, commited relationship with someone your job is to leave a greasy smoking smear on the Earth where anyone who hits your partner used to stand. It IS NOT EVERY to hit the person you claim to love. Ever.

Best of luck brother.


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Snobahr
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 11:08 AM (#49678)
She refuses to get anger-management counseling and says her outbursts are hormonal.

Then she needs to see a doctor and seek (and follow) treatment - those outbursts, if truly hormonal are not healthy (I know, it's a "no duh" statement, because if it's classic abuse it's already Not Healthy). If she refuses, get out. Plain and simple.

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Maeloch
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Posts: 12

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Jan 2008
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:25 PM (#49679)

Get out, get out, get out.

You should leave now, and only return if she is in the process of fixing her issues. I would even suggest you leave without confronting her at all if possible, then contact her in a non-physical way, or in a public place. If you can't avoid her being there, bring a friend with a video camera, so that if she gets violent, you have some evidence other than an eye witness that she is the instigator.

If the police get called, you are the one who will get arrested. Even if you never touched her. If she is really devious, she'll hurt herself in order to implicate you as an abuser. The legal system will assume that it is impossible for a woman to physically abuse a man, especially if the man is larger.

I think ultimatums usually fail. You should leave first, and, if she gets help, only then do you consider returning.

Good luck.


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TheOriginalJes
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 01:13 PM (#49680)

I would like to add one alternate suggestion, here. If it's really bad, don't leave.

Kick HER ass out!

Call the cops, go to a judge, get a restraining order, and buy a new guard dog and/or gun.

Why should you loose everything else that you've worked for, just to be treated fairly? That's just too steep of a price tag, to me.

Also, if you do have children, this gives them a much better, more positive example of how to handle things should they ever find themselves in an abusive relationship. Because odds are, that's exactly what would happen.

If you do have kids and just leave, you have no control over what they are being taught, and provide no observable example from which to learn.


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quats5
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Oct 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 02:37 PM (#49681)

This is like a kid caught with her hand in the cookie jar. Sure, she'll say she's sorry, but does that mean that she won't have her hand right back in the jar if you accept it at face value and stop paying attention? Of course not!

Just saying "sorry" isn't enough. She has made it clear that she doesn't mean it, by refusing to take any responsibility ("it's hormones, not really me") or to do anything which might make her face up to or change her behavior.

Unless you enjoy being beaten (and don't have or want any children to get sucked into this too) then you need to draw a line of what you will no longer accept and what YOU will do about it. You can't control her, but you can control how much she affects you. If you won't put up with being attacked, then tell her that the next time she attacks you, you are leaving... and make it clear what you mean. Out the door and won't come back until she has started counselling? Or out the door for a divorce lawyer? Only you can decide what you are willing to do.


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Suraht
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Oct 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 04:56 PM (#49683)

She's assaulting you, and not willing to go to counseling, because it's just her hormones talking through her fists.

If she keeps up that stance, then get rid of her before she gets mad at you while you're in the shower, and decides a nearby pot of hot oil would make a good way to teach you a lesson for not having exclusively male friends.


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Lucky
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 08:34 PM (#49686)

This cannot be repeated enough, abuse is abuse. There is no gender limitation.

Again, this cannot be repeated enough, the pattern you described is the classic pattern of an abusive relationship. It's the honeymoon period that propagates the cycle of abuse, and even this part is abusive.

You should never have to be on your best behavior to avoid starting a fight. You should never have to worry that "hormones" will endanger your safety or hers. You, as a human being, deserve better, and the the honeymoon period only serves to undermine this basic fact.

You may sincerely love her, and for that I'm sorry. But what she does to you is not love, it's possession. Take it from someone who knows.


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Kyle_Voltti
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 09:18 PM (#49687)
In Response to Lucky (#49686):

yes you have to get out of this relationship now. Abuse is abuse and the most insidious part of abuse is how easy it is for victims to beleave that they arn't victims


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Murgatroyd
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, October 16, 2009 - 11:50 PM (#49688)

I would like to add one alternate suggestion, here. If it's really bad, don't leave.

Kick HER ass out!

Call the cops, go to a judge, get a restraining order, and buy a new guard dog and/or gun.

Why should you loose everything else that you've worked for, just to be treated fairly? That's just too steep of a price tag, to me.

This is a damn good point. (I keep agreeing with Jes. I'm not a sock puppet -- honest!)

It's more likely than not that events will lead you to a divorce. In that case, you don't want her to ruin your life. This sounds cold-blooded and cynical, but it's true: You'll need to prepare, and you don't want to tip her off and give her an opportunity to counter-prepare.

As I mentioned earlier, write up a history of her abuses, and get the document dated and notarized. Give it to a friend -- or multiple copies to multiple friends -- in advance of any events that could precipitate a blowup. If and when the next psycho rage hits, call the police immediately. Then call witnesses. Don't touch her, and don't give her a chance to injure herself. When the cops arrive, have her arrested -- don't back down. Then get a restraining order, to be in effect at least until her court date.

You do not want to let this turn into a he-said/she-said situation -- if you do, you'll lose.

At this point, you can consider giving her an ultimatum -- counseling (and a medical exam!) or divorce, with the force of the court behind your ultimatum. Maybe you can save your marriage, if you still want to. But at least you'll have her history of insane physical violence on the record.

You can't let this go on. If you do, it's likely that you will end up dead, divorced and broke, or in jail.

Good luck.


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Khrys
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 12:29 AM (#49689)

You need to get out, now. Just because you're bigger and stronger does NOT mean you aren't in danger from her rages.

Abuse is abuse, whether it's against a man OR a woman. I'm not saying you can't reconcile at a later date, but right now, she needs counseling, and so do you. There isn't much help for a battered spouse who's a man, but search around. Get out, while you can, and maybe she'll realize the consequences of her 'hormonal outbursts'.

All abusers say they're sorry and that they love you. It doesn't stop them from hitting you again. Next time, it might not be her fists, next time, it might just be a knife or a chair, or worse.

Get out, get out, GET OUT.


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Kenzieger
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Oct 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 07:18 AM (#49692)

I was also in an abusive relationship for 14 years. Don't let it get that long.

National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233.

Here are a couple of websites with information:
http://www.pitt.edu/~frieze/maleabuse.html
http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/domesticvio lence.html

Good luck and know that ridding yourself of the abuser will make things better.


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NunyaBidness
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Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 12:08 PM (#49693)

Get out. If you "hit her back" or "Defend yourself," YOU will be jailed as the abuser. It's not worth it.

Leave. See a judge. Get a restraining order. If you remember the time and circumstances of the last event, file a police report. Get a lawyer. Demand everything. DO NOT try to "be nice" in the divorce. She is going to fuck you for everything you own--she's already proven she has no respect for you and is using you as a literal punching bag. Demand everything, with her living on the street in a cardboard box. That way, when the judge is "reasonable," you might still have the equity in your house and not have to pay money to her. Demand every fucking penny she has and 50% of everything she's ever going to earn.

I watched my parents go through this exact scenario. She's a poor widdle girl, you're a big mean man. It's going to favor her no matter what, so your opening volley has to be MASSIVE. If you start by offering 50/50, she'll get 80% and the lawyers will get 20%.


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Gil
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Oct 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:17 AM (#49701)

either hit her back and show her you're not going to be bullied (sometimes loving someone means tough love), or tell her that either she gets help or you're going to leave her.

and make sure she knows there's no in-between, non-negocible. there is no happy medium. basically, THESE ARE YOUR ONLY CHOICES.

she's not going to stop hurting you unless you let her know one way or another that there's going to be CONSEQUENCES for her abuse.
But either way, make sure to let her know you still love her, and let her know how much she means to you, and that you wouldn't be doing this if you didn't love her.

When you think about it, if you do love her, these are your only options. Don't just up and leave her, but also don't take the beatings. if she refuses to get help, knowing full well that she'll either get hit back or lose you or both, then she's not worth keeping and she doesen't love you.

keep this in mind.


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DanialArin
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Apr 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Monday, October 19, 2009 - 01:41 AM (#49708)
In Response to Gil (#49701):

Gil, unfortunately, that is horribly bad advice. The way many states' laws, and many judges perspectives, are set, if the woman has so much as a scratch on her, it is assumed and indisputable that the man caused it, and that he is the instigator and the abuser. Video documentation might be needed to convince a judge or jury otherwise, and even that may not be enough. (This despite Federal laws and court rulings saying that laws imposing a gender bias are unconstitutional.)

If he's a big guy, which he says he is, or if he has any military background, it's even worse. Just holding her off at arms' length while she's swinging at him will get *him* charged with "assault with a deadly weapon" in some states. Even if she's attacking him with a knife. Even if his blood's on the blade, and the only marks on her are from his fingers as he tries to get her to drop the knife or otherwise stop slashing at him.

I *wish* I was exaggerating.

His only way out that won't send *him* to jail by default is to leave first, be the first to file court papers, and to let police, sheriff's deputies, and/or court officers be the only ones she sees in person outside of a classroom.


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Khrys
Lover

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Mar 2009
Re: And The Hits Keep On Coming... (Score: 1)
posted Monday, October 19, 2009 - 02:21 AM (#49709)
In Response to Gil (#49701):

You DO NOT HIT someone you love! This is possibly the worst advice I've seen since someone genuinely told another person to jump off a bridge.

There are SO MANY OTHER CHOICES.

Never mind that he could seriously harm her even with one blow, never mind that she could then turn around and file domestic charges on him, and never you mind the fact that male abusers of women are looked on as some of the most vile, contemptible creatures on the face of this green Earth...

You don't hurt those you love. You don't hit them, you don't slap them, and the only way you should ever lay hands on them is with love in your heart, unless they're trying to HURT YOU.

If he touched one hair on her head, even if she had a freaking assault rifle in her hands and was firing randomly into the air, he could go to prison for years.


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