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POLL RESULTS: Just the tip...: (22 comments)

POLL: Just the tip...

Friday, January 29, 2010 - 12:00 AM

A reader writes... Q: Is it classless for a female not to even attempt to help pay the dinner bill on the first date? I was going to pay the whole bill anyway but it turned me off so bad that she didn't at least ask, that I never called her again.

POLL: Is it classless for a female not to even attempt to help pay the dinner bill on the first date?
 
18% (345) I'm a man, and I say, "Yes, It's in poor taste."
 
66% (1211) I'm a man, and I say, "No, a woman should not have to pay if she's asked on a date."
 
5% (94) I'm a woman, and I say, "Yes, It's in poor taste."
 
9% (170) I'm a woman, and I say, "No, a woman should not have to pay if she's asked on a date."
1820 people have voted in this poll. (This poll is not active.)
SingingHawk
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Jan 2010
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 02:06 AM (#52196)

Whoever does the asking out, does the paying.


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DanialArin
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Apr 2009
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 02:06 AM (#52197)

This flies in the face of conventional protocol. Guy asks out girl; guy picks up check by default. Especially on the first date. Unless you have a prior agreement that you're "going Dutch".

The "standard" role is that the guy is the provider, the gal is the caretaker. If you're going out, it's on him. Once things move along, you may start staying in, and then the host usually brings the food, and either or both bring the entertainment.

Admittedly the roles have evened out in the last fifty years. As things progress, you can take turns. But at the start, it's on the person who's taking the initiative. 99 times out of 100, that's still the guy.


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ibigin
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Jan 2010
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 02:19 AM (#52198)

I am a woman and I always walk into the first date as if we were going "dutch" - no matter who did the asking. This way, there are no expectations and if I don't like the guy, I don't feel bad that he just paid for my meal, which I am more than capable of paying for.

Chivalry IS nice, but I appreciate it more when a man pulls out my chair or opens the door for me, than if he wines and dines me.


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Azerik
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Apr 2009
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 03:45 AM (#52205)

I'm going to go traditional here, whichever person does the asking should assume to pay. That goes either way, if the female does the asking then she should expect to pay (though if it were me I'd be ready to cover it anyway).

It is probably a flag on a relationship if she doesn't even offer, but not necessarily. It would depend on the feel of the date. Did it seem like she was only interested in a free meal? Did you click enough on another level that she just kinda forgot? Did you do the whole opening doors and pulling chairs to give off the "old fashioned" vibe? If so she might have thought you'd take offense at her offering to pay.

Ultimately if it is that big of an issue with you, seek counseling. It's just a dinner tab, if you are that concerned about money, find a cheaper place to eat.


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fesworks
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Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 05:09 AM (#52211)

Honestly, I think such a meal should be split. We live in modern times, let's not ASSUME one person is going to pay.

I think an offer should be made by both people... or at least one should ask if they want to split the bill. I don't think it's too much to ask.

Is it enough to not have a second date? Depends on how well the date went, before (or ever after) the bill.


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ElBueno
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Jan 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:05 AM (#52219)

It's a big plus for a woman to offer to pay for part of the check, even if the man intends to pay the whole thing himself. It shows that she's interested in partnership, not providership. We live in a world where a man simply cannot be a provider anymore. Everyone needs to do their part in a relationship now, even women (imagine that!).

My understanding was that the age of mindless chivalry ended a long time ago. Judging from the poll results, we haven't progressed socially as much as I thought.

I want an equal, not a ward.

Though, ironically, my wife's last name is Ward. :P


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Pengy
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Feb 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:19 AM (#52220)

What SingingHawk said, though I was always prepared to help pay and would always offer to at least cover the tip. As time goes on, if a relationship develops, it should become more equitable depending on the couple.


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CasualNotice
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Jun 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:57 AM (#52223)
In Response to SingingHawk (#52196):

Whoever does the asking out, does the paying.
SingingHawk has provided you with the correct answer. I'm surprised you even have normal friends if your attitude is to expect everyone else to pay for your ideas.


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huyderman
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Oct 2009
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 08:47 AM (#52227)

I tend to assume, and most girls I've dated, that the check be split in this day and age. But this might also be affected by the fact I'm a student, and date mostly students. Generally, most students can't afford handing out free meals...


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Uriko
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Mar 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 10:37 AM (#52233)

I think I'd put it this way:
If YOU asked HER out, meaning you decided the place, then it's on you. If SHE asked YOU out, then it's on her. If you decided on a place together, then splitting the bill sounds about right to me.

Asking a guy if you should split the bill can be taken the wrong way quite easily - I've already tried that. Apparently he got mad because he thought that I thought he didn't have any money... Maybe she thought the same.


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TheOriginalJes
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Jan 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 12:09 PM (#52239)

While I agree, whole-heartedly, with SingingHawk; I'd like to applaud the poster for learning about himself.

You, Sir, now know that you want a woman who's strong, independent, and feels no need to rely on you. Good luck finding her.


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artemis3
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Oct 2009
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 01:04 PM (#52242)

Either be a man and discuss splitting the check up front, or suck it up and deal with it. If you are too much of a pansy to talk about, but get offended that somehow she didn't figure out that you wanted her to offer, then the problem is with you, not her.


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Thenodrin
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May 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 04:21 PM (#52258)
In Response to ElBueno (#52219):

My understanding was that the age of mindless chivalry ended a long time ago. Judging from the poll results, we haven't progressed socially as much as I thought.

ElBueno, I think that at least part of the poll results can be blamed on the phrasing of the poll.

Note that the question is "when she is asked out on a date," and there are no choices for when she asks someone out.

I agree with SingingHawk in that whomever asks the other person out, whomever takes the initiative should pay.

If she asks him out, she should pay. If he asks her out, he should pay. And, so long as we're mixing pronouns, if he asks him out, he should pay, and if she asks her out, she should pay.

Theno


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Arktik
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Oct 2009
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 08:11 PM (#52280)

:: Is it classless for a female not to even attempt to help pay the dinner bill on the first date? I was going to pay the whole bill anyway but it turned me off so bad that she didn't at least ask, that I never called her again.::

Classless? No. Typical? Yes.
If you ask her out ... you pay.
If she asks you out ... you're still expected to pay.
But if by some miracle of fate she offers to 'go dutch', then you have found a rare gem and should definitely ask her out again.


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Crescent
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Jan 2010
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, January 29, 2010 - 09:42 PM (#52289)
In Response to Arktik (#52280):

It's probably a regional/upbringing thing. In a some areas, it's still expected that the guy will "be gentlemanly" and pay for dinners. Bear in mind, some guys get *very* upset if the girl tries to pay, so it's not just girls being greedy. Heck, as I walked into a restaurant one time, an older man held the door open for me. Since the entry was 2 sets of doors, I thanked him as I walked thru the first door then opened the second one for him. The way he came to a screeching halt, unable to move thru the doorway, you'd have thought it was a brick wall. I finally had to give up and just walk inside ahead of him.

When I was dating, I would always either pay half the bill or would pay the entire next dinner if my date insisted on paying for that dinner.

1) It's hard to insist on being treated as an equal if I don't take my share of the responsibilities.

2) Some guys feel if they pay for dinner, the girl is obliged to have sex with him in return. ("I paid up; your turn.") Paying for half the dinner kills that argument.

Personally, I don't even worry about who asked who out. To me, it's proper manners to split the check under most circumstances or alternate who pays. If one of the two was in financial trouble, then the other should pay, but the first should try to find a way to reciprocate on the next date, perhaps making a homemade meal.

If you really liked her otherwise, talk with her and find out about her views on things. It honestly may never have occurred to her that what she did would be considered bad manners by some. She might be embarrassed that she did something you considered rude but she thought was good manners. Or, she might be a flighty little gold digger who expects to be taken care of all her life. You won't know, though, without talking to her.


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DanialArin
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Apr 2009
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 04:04 AM (#52323)

Is it my imagination, or is this week's discussion sounding a lot like last week's? Both questions involved rules of etiquette and protocol, and the "correct" answer seems to be different from one region or social class to another.

The protocol also varies based on stage of relationship. Which is to say, things get a lot more relaxed if you've been together long enough to be getting serious enough that you're starting to combine other expenses... or if you've known each other for a while before you started dating... or if you're going somewhere as part of a larger group. But be prepared to cover both yourself and your date in the event that you don't get around to discussing it beforehand, or if you're the one who asked the other out, or if it's a blind date.

Finally, for a date that involves dinner plus something else, you can assign each particular expense to one person or the other... again, provided you agree on it in advance. For example, he covers dinner, she covers the movie (or breakfast, if you end up skipping the theater). For those of you who've seen The Incredibles, Violet's conversation with Tony at the end of the film is also a viable, if awkward, example of this.


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TheOriginalJes
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Jan 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 10:21 AM (#52350)
In Response to DanialArin (#52323):

-"Is it my imagination, or is this week's discussion sounding a lot like last week's? Both questions involved rules of etiquette and protocol, and the "correct" answer seems to be different from one region or social class to another."-

True. However, this one has the added benefit of a possible double-standard where traditional sought-after female meets modern woman. Have you ever tried to push someone off of that fence?

Some guys are more pliable, where they just expect to pay, sex or no sex (as some have pointed out). And, there are guys who are very rigid about their role as the financier, one way or the other. But, of the people I've known, the guys who insist on at least splitting the check have a much smaller dating pool.


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Cat1864
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Dec 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 05:52 PM (#52379)

I feel that (unless previously discussed such as when plans were made) the person who does the asking and makes the arrangements should be the one paying. That way there are no misunderstandings about intent.

Where is the line between being on an outing with a 'friend'(or friends) to a 'date'?

Preferably, a 'first date', should be coffee or lunch and very informal. In which case, both people should expect to pay for their own meals (unless one person makes all the arrangements) and there should be no expectations of the event leading anywhere other than to maybe another date.


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Sleddog
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Feb 2009
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 04:11 PM (#52499)

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but for me the default position is that unless we've discussed going Dutch then if I ask a woman out I will be paying. If she offers to pay some or all of the bill, that's fine, but in asking someone out I'm saying that I am am taking responsibility for providing for what we're doing. If we're doing dinner and a movie, I expect to be paying for dinner and the movie, unless either we've agreed to split the cost or she offers to pay for some part of the evening.

The person who asked the question said that the fact that his date didn't offer to pay turned him off. I can't help but believe that if he had pressed the issue she would have been equally turned off.


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Murgatroyd
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Jan 2008
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 06:24 PM (#52512)

Oh jeeze ... I just noticed the title of this week's poll.


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rickssg
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Feb 2010
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 05, 2010 - 07:33 AM (#53165)

You hopefully realize that even asking this question makes you sound like a whiny crybaby. Regardless of all the feminist hype that's been promoted for several years, one thing that 99% of women find incredibly attractive is a man's ability to provide. You are trying to impress her. Expecting her to offer to help pay for the date that you asked her out on does not impress in the slightest.


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rickssg
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Feb 2010
Re: Just the tip... (Score: 1)
posted Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 07:49 AM (#53742)
In Response to ElBueno (#52219):

It's a big plus for a woman to offer to pay for part of the check, even if the man intends to pay the whole thing himself. It shows that she's interested in partnership, not providership. We live in a world where a man simply cannot be a provider anymore. Everyone needs to do their part in a relationship now, even women (imagine that!).

My understanding was that the age of mindless chivalry ended a long time ago. Judging from the poll results, we haven't progressed socially as much as I thought.

I live in a world where I have been the sole financial provider for my family for 15 years. This shows no sign of changing (or needing to change) any time soon. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

And everyone has always needed to do their part in a relationship, even back in the 1800s. But having a partnership with each partner doing their part does not (and should not) mean each person making an equal contribution in every single area. That way lies madness. Men and women are inherently different and each brings different things to the table. That's why a man (well, most of them) wants a woman and not another man, and vise versa.

And being to much of a wimp to take care of your woman is not social progress. The "mindless chivalry" you deride is still exactly what about 90% of women still want from a man. This is not because of social constructs, but because of inherent biology.


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