forums

welcome! please login or register.

 

 

 

POLL RESULTS: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my!: (33 comments)
pages in this discussion: 1 2 next>>

POLL: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my!

Friday, February 26, 2010 - 12:00 AM

A reader writes... Q: Where can a woman go to find a decent, honest, normal guy for a serious relationship? I've tried the dating sites, go out with my friends to concerts, outdoor and indoor activities and bars. I am an attractive 45-year-old divorced mom, educated, physically fit, well-mannered, honest and respectful. All I seem to find are jerks, liars and stupid men. Any suggestions?

POLL: Where's the best place to find an available man?
 
6% (70) Dating Web sites
 
2% (21) Concerts / Events
 
8% (86) Social / professional clubs
 
0% (6) Nightclubs / bars
 
11% (119) Church / religious gatherings
 
2% (25) Work
 
1% (16) Gym
 
38% (393) Through friends
 
1% (17) Grocery store / shopping mall
 
26% (271) There aren't any
1024 people have voted in this poll. (This poll is not active.)
DanialArin
Lover

Posts: 92

Registered:
Apr 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 12:25 AM (#55132)

Just to throw out a few wild (or not so wild) ideas...

Have you tried the local hobby shop or gaming store? Laundromat or library? Take an elective class at a local college or university... Join the PTA for your children's schools, maybe. Or perhaps a science fiction convention... (Note that the ones with a strong literary bent tend to attract an older crowd than the media- or anime-oriented ones.)


Locked profile
kamikaze616
Lover

Posts: 2

Registered:
Jan 2010
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 12:35 AM (#55133)

What are your standards exactly? Is it "This guy's not handsome enough, this guy's career isn't good enough," anything like that? If you are really going out and dating that much, maybe you are ruling out the decent guys because you are prioritizing certain qualities more than you are concerned with their being good human beings.


Locked profile
AdviceIncorporated
Lover

Posts: 5

Registered:
Sep 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 01:19 AM (#55134)

Define "decent" and "normal." Have you considered that perhaps your standards are a bit high? You have left us a pretty vague picture with nothing but generalizations to go on. Also, you seem to have a pretty high opinion of yourself. Condescend much, madame?

Also, read and re-read everything that kamikaze616 said. I've been that poor "decent, honest, normal" bastard that was ruled out on a regular basis because he didn't have dashing good looks or a cushy career. Maybe the man you're looking for isn't the handsome guy that showed up at the bar in a BMW. Maybe he's the quiet, unshaven guy staring deeply into his beer because he's lonely.

I'd suggest cultural events, like poetry readings, art galleries, and Classical concerts that in many areas are given free. Plus, they often have complimentary refreshments!


Locked profile
whutaguy
Lover

Posts: 14

Registered:
Jun 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 05:54 AM (#55138)

I voted for church, but it usually won't work like that. Go there looking for God, he'll find the man when your heart is right.


Locked profile
davztruk
Lover

Posts: 3

Registered:
Jan 2010
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 08:02 AM (#55140)

Maybe you should toss out the pre-conceived notions and the checklist. (See kamikaze's remark) You also sound pretty angry. Don't want to go all 'therapy' on you but you sound pissed. Are you over that divorce? Got some 'issues' with men that you are possibly tugging around from the ex? Drop the pre-judging, clean out the ol' bean and heart, relax. Remember, when you least expect it, expect it. There are many many men who aren't liars, jerks, or stupid...just ask me.


Locked profile
modelnut
Lover

Posts: 2

Registered:
Feb 2010
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 08:39 AM (#55142)

My wife and I have been married for seven months and change. We met on a fan site, a Yahoo club for Beauty and the Beast fans (that's the 80's TV show in case you don't remember.) She started a private chat one Sunday that has been going on for a year and a half now.
So I will give you the advice that was given to me (which I didn't take but which proved true anyway!) Go to where there are people who like something that you like or love. You will have a better chance of finding someone there who you fit and who fits you. But never force things. If it is right, it is right. If you have doubts, then it isn't.


Locked profile
Guairdean
Lover

Posts: 20

Registered:
Mar 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 08:46 AM (#55143)

I saw an article recently that listed 31 ways to find a decent guy. I'm sure that lady that wrote it meant well, but I think 31 suggestions is a bit much. I wrote this as a response to the article and it was very well received. I thought it worth repeating here.

======================

Finding a guy is fairly easy. They're out there looking for you, just make yourself available.

1. Don't try too hard, that's a little scary. Go to the store in your sweats. That makes you approachable.

2. Forget the makeup. A clean fresh face makes you real. Heavy makeup means you're hiding something.

3. Don't talk about commitments. If he likes you, he'll commit. If he's using you, he won't.

4. Be his friend, but not his best friend. He'll tell his best friend things he'll never tell his wife or lover. That's the way it's supposed to be. Get over it.

5. Don't expect him to change. Many relationships fail for two simple reasons. (1) She expects him to change, but he doesn't. (2) He expects her to not change, but she does.

6. If you love him, you won't try to hurt him no matter how much something he did hurts you. If he loves you he won't try to hurt you no matter how much something you did hurts him. If either one of you TRIES to hurt the other, it isn't love and it's time to move on. The same thing applies if either of you does something and doesn't care if it hurts the other or not.

7. Don't expect to understand him. He's male and you're not. You can't understand him. Don't expect him to understand you. You're female and he's not. He can't understand you. Accept that you are different. Learn where those differences are and where the similarities are. This will cut your arguments in half.

8. You are going to argue. Don't take it personally and don't make it personal. Before long you'll find that you're discussing and not arguing. You won't remember the change.

9. Most arguments aren't worth the trouble, but you won't know until you discuss it.

10. If it isn't working out, let it go. Try to save the friendship, but don't feel bad if that's gone too. It's hard to take a relationship backwards. If he handles it well, tell your friends about him. If he handles it badly, be SURE to tell your friends about him.


Locked profile
artemis3
Lover

Posts: 10

Registered:
Oct 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 08:52 AM (#55144)

At 45 you are going to have a tough time. The simple fact is that by that age, most of the nice, decent, normal guys you are looking for are already married. The nice, decent, normal guys who are divorced probably got burned by their ex-wives and may not be all that interested in letting it happen again, so they may not be looking.

The only real advice I can give is to keep you eyes and ears open for an opportunity to meet someone, but don't appear to be desperate for a guy - that will probably scare off the good ones while attracting the nuts.


Locked profile
Coanunn
Lover

Posts: 11

Registered:
Feb 2010
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 10:48 AM (#55146)

I have too agree with Guairdean, all 10 of those points are honest to goodness gold if you are really looking for a decent normal guy. I happen to be a decent normal single guy, and frankly every woman I've met recently does one of those 10 wrong, making themselves either unapproachable or simply not worth approaching.

Women look for different things in men, so your girlfriends may not be the best source of advice, but couples you know likely will be. What a guy thinks and a woman think of a guy rarely coincide unless he really is a decent guy, so if a married couple can agree that so and so is a good guy, he likely is one.

Someone mentioned alot of other places to go, such as sci-fi gatherings, hobby stores, classes at the local community college. These too are great examples of where you are going to find honest to goodness decent guys who aren't there "cruising for chicks" but are there indulging in their hobbies or interests, but don't go to something you have no interest in yourself. Guys who like something will want to discuss it with you, if you can't discuss Serenity, Firefly, Comics, Star Trek, etc, then do not go to a function for it as they will see through it and walk away unless they are desperate in which case you aren't getting what you were looking for to begin with.


Locked profile
darkgolem
Lover

Posts: 13

Registered:
Oct 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 11:37 AM (#55148)

The world as fair numbers of reasonable people of both sexes in them. However, most people are not single at 45, so you might be running into a problem where there are more disfunctional people who are single at your age than other, since disfunctional people are more likely to be divorced or not get married.

I am not saying someone who hasn't got them selves together at 45 is bad, I am just saying, more likely to have a hard time with a long term relationship.

Which also needs to bring a question up for yourself. Are you one of those people? If so, it might be a good idea to find out why you are interested in people who have problems rather than don't (yes, I understand intellectually you are looking for non-problematic people, but I am talking about who you are attracted to). If you address that issue (assuming it is an issue) then you might have better luck.

Just saying.


Locked profile
CaptainSmokeblower
Lover

Posts: 58

Registered:
Nov 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 11:38 AM (#55149)

Since jerks, liars and dunces also know about all these places you're going to find them there -- and they're hoping you are naive enough, or lacking in enough intelligence, to think the men there will be good candidates.
The only place that comes to mind where such men don't reside is a monastery, but you're out-of-luck there for other reasons.

I've found in my searches for a great woman is I'm the problem not the women. I build my belief in a person all the while ignoring the facts.
Cap


Locked profile
TheOriginalJes
Lover

Posts: 205

Registered:
Jan 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 12:15 PM (#55151)

I have to take exception to the category of 'Stupid'. We're presented with no option that allows for the possibility of the OP for just being bitter and/or unduly judgmental.

I also find it difficult to believe that a person who classifies themselves as respectful can only find men who are jerks, liars, or stupid. In fact, I find the general tone of the question might lead one to think of a few other adjectives to add to the list.

But, to answer the general question: you might try questioning what you're looking for in a man, and try going to the places that he might be.

You can weed out stupid. If I'm to assume that you want a physically fit, financially successful man, then I would suggest a country club of sorts. Just don't bother going on Friday or Saturday Night. That's when you should be in the high-end sports club at your local top-level sporting arena.

To weed out jerks and liars, you'll have to add 'good judge of character' to your repertoire.


Locked profile
vorlonagent
Lover

Posts: 55

Registered:
Oct 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 01:19 PM (#55154)
In Response to TheOriginalJes (#55151):

I'm in the same position only I'm 48 and and have no kids.

I noted down Guairdean's list (thanks!).

Mind if I ask one question? If Our Girl a 45-year old woman reading webcomics, what in hades is she doing looking for a "normal" guy when she's not (entirely) "normal" herself?

OK I know almost none of us are really "normal", but y'know? Some of us look normal and aren't. some of us don't and are.


Locked profile
Azerik
Lover

Posts: 35

Registered:
Apr 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 03:28 PM (#55157)

The problem here doesn't sound like the "finding" it's the "seeking" that is leading to problems.

Your best bet is to stop looking.

If you go out to a bar or a concert and you are looking for someone, then what you are going to find is other people there that are also looking. Find an activity to get involved in without it being about finding someone. Stop trying to find the right venue to meet someone and just look around the rest of your life. Odds are pretty good that there are some candidates that you pass by every day.

Also, you might look at yourself. I don't want to be unnecessarily harsh, but why are you single at 45? If you have had a string of relationships in your life that always seem to be with jerks and liars, you really should examine the common denominator in every one of those relationships. You.

Look into therapy. You aren't defective, you are probably just playing out a pattern that was imprinted on you in childhood. If you always wind up with defective men, then look at your selection process. Maybe go out with someone that *isn't* your "type" or doesn't instantly attract you.

Assuming your "radar" isn't tuned to the wrong sort, then check into the more geeky venues. Geeks/Nerds on the whole tend to be shy at first, but often will be the most solid and reliable sort of man once you get past that armor.


Locked profile
spzeidler
Lover

Posts: 35

Registered:
Jan 2010
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Friday, February 26, 2010 - 05:43 PM (#55158)
In Response to Guairdean (#55143):

your point 7 is stupid.
It's not a problem of being male, female, or a small furry blue entity from outer space, it's a problem of you not being -them-.
You never 100% understand somebody else, not even one identical twin another. The advice is good though; they are not you, deal gracefully.


Locked profile
Murgatroyd
Lover

Posts: 300

Registered:
Jan 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 03:11 AM (#55165)

All I seem to find are jerks, liars and stupid men.

I won't defend the jerks and liars ... but lady, we're all stupid in one way or another. I suspect you've done -- or are doing -- some pretty stupid things yourself.

Look at you: you're so stupid you married a man who was wrong for you (in one way or another -- was the divorce his fault or yours?) and now you're on your own.

Perhaps the only good men in their mid-forties who are available are the ones who were so stupid that they didn't get into a stable marriage ... just like you, in other words.

You might ask your friends whether you have an attitude that repels the men you'd be interested in. Your complaint reminds me of Groucho Marx's line, "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."


Locked profile
Guairdean
Lover

Posts: 20

Registered:
Mar 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 03:12 PM (#55173)
In Response to spzeidler (#55158):

I must disagree. Women understand why another woman needs (not wants, needs) 40 pair of shoes. Men understand why men need (again, need, not want) a complete set of nearly identical tools. Little girls understand the joy of twirling in a skirt, and little boys understand the joy of being able to jump up and touch the top of the door frame. All of these things are a mystery to the other gender. The trick is to understand that the mystery itself is also important, and to enjoy it. You are correct that we can never truly walk a mile in another's shoes since we are individual beings, but we can understand the "why" of our own genders needs. Understanding the "why" of the complementary (opposite is, in far too many ways, the wrong term) gender is something only a rare few will accomplish.


Locked profile
lwj2
Lover

Posts: 33

Registered:
Feb 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Monday, March 01, 2010 - 04:45 AM (#55179)

You sound angry -- might want to figure out why.

That aside, go to places where the people there have interests like yours.

Churches -- some have groups for divorced people. If you attend a church regularly, talk to the priest (pastor, rector, whatever) about finding a partner - and about what's made you angry.


Locked profile
zmortis
Lover

Posts: 76

Registered:
Jun 2009
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Monday, March 01, 2010 - 06:30 PM (#55183)

Ah, the classic quandry of where to find someone to fall in love with for the rest of your life.

First I think a couple of good points have been made by others here so I will re-iterate them. You can't do anything about the men you are meeting or dating. They are who they are. What you can do is make better choices about your life and who you are going to be.

Choice number one is to sit down and think about what it will take to put yourself into a more receptive mode about your options. If you are coming into a potential relationship with negative pre-conceptions that everyone you meet is dumber than you, behaves like an ass, or is dishonest, then all you will see are those qualities in people.

Let's me be honest here. You are not what most guys would consider a prize at this stage in your life. You probably reek of rebound desparation after your divorce, and a bitter attitude about how things ended up in your failed marriage. Get yourself feeling right and comfortable about yourself as a person and a single individual before you try to start another serious relationship.

I can tell you from first hand experince that good guys do not like being beat up for another guy's screw-up. We will steer clear of women like that no matter how smart they seem or how good looking they are.

Unmarried guys in your age bracket also tend to be either gun shy from past bad experiences, or boldly forward and ultimately uncommited to a long term relationship past sex. If you wanted the good guy the time to grab one was in his late twenties before some other woman could ruin him like your past failed relationship attemps have ruined you.

You could use the option I took when I was ready to get serious about relationships after my divorce. I entered a relationship with a woman ten years younger than me (we met through friends) who had not yet been burdened with a failed serious relationship. We are married for almost four years now with a daughter who is three.

However, before you start down that course you have to be ready to accept other people for the flaws they have more than their perfections. There is nothing wrong with understanding yourself, and what constitutes a deal breaker for you, but if you are trying to find the ideal "Mister Right" and won't settle for anything short of that mark, then you will either be looking a long time, or suffering a string of disapointments.

Personally speaking if I was still single and saw the attitude displayed by your post above I would steer well clear of you no matter how good you looked. Interpreted in guy speak it reads - high maintenance drama queen needs punching bag to soak up abuse over anger from past divorce. Must take it like a wimp and always be at beck and call for punishment over any perceived infraction real or not.

I hope this helps.

p.s. Since I was honest regarding my opinion I will be perceived as a jerk by many here. Sometimes those two qualities (honesty and non-jerk) are not compatible. Since I can't control how others choose to percieve me, all I can do is stick with personal integrity and be honest about what I think.


Locked profile
TheOriginalJes
Lover

Posts: 205

Registered:
Jan 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 12:28 PM (#55207)
In Response to Guairdean (#55173):

Actually, in the respect that you've laid out, I think that I may have recently stumbled upon some insight into the difference between men and women. It's a work-in-progress, so I'd welcome all comments.

It's going to sound very harsh, because it's easier to exemplify in the negative rather than the positive. And, this could be gender neutral for the PC crowd, but that makes it harder for me to communicate. But, please remember, this is in a bubble; so don't expect this generalized frame-of-mind to stand up to every real-world practical situation. It's just a starting point.

Here it is:

Where man would covet, woman would criticize.

Man -

The basic man is taught to build the world around him and to provide. When he looks at something or someone, he is to decide if he wants that thing or person in his world. This isn't just an ownership issue, but also a networking issue. It isn't about taking from someone else (necessarily), but about seeing what's available and how to obtain it. (Yes, this is why he never seems to have enough toys.)

Woman -

The basic woman is taught to care for her world. It's not about getting things (ok, except shoes). It's about how to use them to alter her environment to suite her needs at the time. She's not as interested in the pursuit of something as she is the control/manipulation of something.

Example -

A man can look at another man and admire that person's house, car, job, body, and/or lifestyle. While he's doing it, he's automatically trying to decide how is the best way to obtain those things that he admires for/of himself. Those things that he does not admire, he generally ignores, unless he can derive some sort of momentary amusement from seeing them.

A woman can look at another woman and make determinations about her life and lifestyle, her clothing, her family, etc. She'll spend a great deal of time deciding if that other woman is using what she has in her world to it's proper advantage, according to her own understandings.

Synergistics -

Where this works out wonderfully is when each person accepts a particular role and relinquishes the other. A provider with little need to manage the day-to-day interactions of his or her little world can easily allow a manager to run the show. The provider must only have access on an as-needed basis.

The manager who trusts a provider to do the actual obtaining can allow a provider to work within a general set of parameters based on the available assets. He/she can also provide purpose to the provider be supplying a list of needs for the provider to fulfill.

It's a delicate balance that's easily upset as one person tries to do too much by his- or herself.

Thoughts?


Locked profile
spzeidler
Lover

Posts: 35

Registered:
Jan 2010
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 03:35 PM (#55209)
In Response to Guairdean (#55173):

I'm female. I have 5 pairs of shoes.
People who have 40 pairs of shoes IMO exhibit some kind of obsessive-compulsive disorder (or at least should just throw out the old crap they'll never wear again already). So? Your argument just died, unless you want to claim that while being female and human (and definitely grown up) I was no woman.


Locked profile
spzeidler
Lover

Posts: 35

Registered:
Jan 2010
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 03:56 PM (#55211)
In Response to TheOriginalJes (#55207):

that has nothing whatsoever to do with man and woman and everything with stay at home, no own income of consequence, economically dependent home caretaker versus 'breadwinner' who has all the economic power and can shove off all the annoying little things to someone else.

Look at families where for whatever reason the father stays at home and looks after the children, and the woman goes out to work. You'll see the usual patterns reversed, including the breadwinner wanting their quiet after a long day at work and the stay-at-home parent wanting to talk to a grown-up at last please right now, but seasoned with an extra dollop of "you think I'm worth shit" if they don't get constant praise on the side of the guy (who has to fight cultural expectations on top of being in a dependent position).

Imagine that you had no means whatsoever to ever get anything you wanted by yourself. That your only way to get anything was to find someone you could manipulate into giving it to you. That's what you perceive as "woman" behavior. I perceive it as "sick" and "oppressed" btw.


Locked profile
Murgatroyd
Lover

Posts: 300

Registered:
Jan 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 02:43 AM (#55223)

Jes and spzeidler sort of touch on something I'd wondered about. Their musings on What Does A Woman Want may or may not apply to this particular woman:

Where can a woman go to find a decent, honest, normal guy for a serious relationship? [...] I am an attractive 45-year-old divorced mom, educated, physically fit, well-mannered, honest and respectful.

She's looking for a man ... but why? For companionship? For economic security? For sex? As a father to her kids? As a piƱata?

What does this woman want? If we knew the answer to that question we'd be able to advise her on a better search strategy.


Locked profile
TheOriginalJes
Lover

Posts: 205

Registered:
Jan 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 11:36 AM (#55225)
In Response to spzeidler (#55211):

I'm so glad that you completely gleaned over the part where I said that I wasn't going to take the time to make this politically correct.

BTW, for the most part, our society (or, should I say, most societies on this planet) still treats boys and girls with the same "oppressive" gender roles in regards to responsibility, fairness (i.e. boys aren't allowed to hit girls; but girls suffer no such restrictions or punishments), entertainment and child-rearing. That, in itself, is the single most important developmental impact on a young mind; and is why my argument is still relevant as 'man' and 'woman'.


Locked profile
Guairdean
Lover

Posts: 20

Registered:
Mar 2008
Re: Liars and Stupids and Jerks, oh my! (Score: 1)
posted Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 08:45 PM (#55232)
In Response to spzeidler (#55209):

Generalisations are called generalisations for a reason. There are always those who don't fit the mold. Your interests simply don't fit in with the majority. My argument is alive and well. Unless, of course, you're saying that all females must act in an identical manner. I believe we both know they don't. They do, however, act alike in more ways than they act like men.


Locked profile
pages in this discussion: 1 2 next>>
Threshold:  Locked
The Fine Print: The above comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Hell, let's face it, we're not responsible for anything; including the things we say, do, or think. And if you sue us because you think we are? Well, we're not responsible for that either.

 





(C) 2005 Brad J. Guigar. All rights reserved. Use of content or images without the consent of the author is prohibited.