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Can't ask women out (12 comments)

Can't ask women out

Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 12:00 AM



Hi. I'm a man in my mid 20s, and I haven't had a date in a few years. It seems that my main problem is that I don't know how to approach someone I don't know. This became painfully obvious recently while I was trying to find a dance partner during my cousin's wedding dance.

Every time I got anywhere near any of the young women there, they were so engrossed in conversation with each other that it was impossible for me to greet them without interrupting them. I tried approaching some of the women, but they were always huddled together chattering with each other, so the only way for me to talk to any of them would have involved standing awkwardly close behind some of them. I didn't have any opportunities to say anything more than "Hi" or "Excuse me", and when I said those, they didn't show signs of hearing me at all.

I've read that at parties it's smart to seek out people who are hanging out by themselves, and talk to them. There was really only one girl I found who was silent, but the first few times I looked at her, she looked away from me and quickly left the vicinity, as though I made her uncomfortable, so I didn't bother talking to her, and later on in the evening she continued to avoid me anyway.

I came up with an idea that I thought was pretty smart. The idea was to ask the bride, my cousin, to introduce me to her friends, because obviously she knew a lot of people there and everyone wanted to talk to her that night. My idea proved utterly ineffective because she was running back and forth all night to talk to everyone. I didn't even know where she was half the time, and I didn't get a chance to say more than "Hello" to her until after midnight, four full hours after I began trying to talk to her. She introduced me to four of her friends who were just leaving, and while I was making sure I had all their names straight, my cousin disappeared on me, so I left. I spent the majority of the night sitting with relatives in their 50s and 60s, and a cousin and his girlfriend who were about my age. The latter two seemed to feel sorry for me. I only danced twice that night, both times with relatives.

So, what my question is, what all should I have done differently? Granted, wedding dances are as far from my milieu as anything can be, and maybe they're not a good situation in which to meet people. But I really have similar problems in all settings, and I would like to date more often. I need your help!
DanialArin
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 12:49 AM (#60850)

In theory, this is where a "wingman" comes into play. You approach a group with a group of your own, ideally about the same size but not necessarily so, wait for someone to say something that one of you can comment on, and then interrupt. In practice, this requires having another single guy to act as your wingman. You can still try the listen-and-interrupt by yourself, but having a partner to share the sudden bulk attention with helps with the confidence factor, as well as giving you collectively a broader set of knowledge to interject on.

It's a certain guarantee that neither the bride nor groom will have time to make introductions, nor to talk for maybe two minutes with any one person. The tendency to arrange the table assignments into existing social circles, while it helps keep guests from being stuck sitting next to someone they're uncomfortable with because they don't know them, also means that you won't have being seated at the same table as a reason (and a means) to start a conversation with someone new. And it encourages the clustering phenomenon you cited. An alternative I've seen once or twice is to group the singles from disparate social circles at the same tables, declustering existing cliques and mixing up folks who might otherwise find it to awkward to approach each other. Unfortunately, this is the less common practice.


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rhahael
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 06:22 AM (#60853)

I don't think a wingman was actually necessary, not for just asking for a dance.

The problem was exactly his hesitation to talk to the girls, we find it just awkward, girls find it annoying (though they will call it creepy, they're not really that frightened about it; they just learned this word have more effect).

Just go at them, interrupt them if necessary, and instead of showing signs of shyness (the hardest part, for shy people) say you're bored and would like a partner to dance with a straight face; that should work pretty well.


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Evenflow58
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 06:31 AM (#60854)
In Response to rhahael (#60853):

Agreed. I have the same issue with women because I'm afraid of rejection. Nobody likes rejection but it's part of the process. The best way to get over this is to not give yourself time to overthink things. Next time. Of see a woman you're interested in just go up and politely ask to buy her a drink or dance or whatever. It doesn't have to be some earth shattering proposal, just something to get her talking.

Also, expect the minimum. If you ask her to dance only expect the dance. Once it's over adjust your expectations. I used to get caught up in expecting to buy a woman a drink and to spend the rest of my time at the bar talking to her. That led to rambling on my part because I was constant,y trying to figure out what to say next. Just live in the moment and enjoy her company.

In the end of it doesn't work out you really haven't lost anything so there's little to be afraid of (I know, easier said than done).


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stickthrower2001
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 09:06 AM (#60857)

I have found that getting the attention of women is all about confidence. Women are generally drawn to men who are sure of themselves.

Look them in the eye, make jokes (funny ones, not stupid or crude ones), laugh at their jokes, and listen to what they say. At the same time, you need to project an air that says "I'm hanging out here because I want to, not because I need to." Trust me, the women will fall all over themselves to dance with you.

Just remember, you don't have to dance with anyone...and show it.


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changa
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 03:01 PM (#60861)

First, when women say a guy is "creepy," don't mistake that for "annoying" -- that's terrible advice. "Creepy" means they shut you down hard because they don't want to be one of the 25% of women who get raped. Every woman internalizes that, it's real every single day.
If you knew 1 in 4 girls was likely to shoot you in the leg every time you said hi, you'd glare silently at every woman unless you were sure they weren't about to pull a gun. If you want to meet a woman at a wedding, don't just walk up and interrupt a conversation - they can see you're there, if they close ranks it means "piss off."
You need some way to reassure them you're not a risk, and the best way is a reference from another woman. Not the bride - she's busy today and that's that. A female cousin, a male cousin's girlfriend. Find a woman you know who's unavailable (sister, cousin, married friend), ask her if she knows any single chicks. If she's a stranger to this crowd, try someone else. If she isn't a stranger but can't come up with anyone single, ask yourself why even women who know you don't want you near their friends. Fix that first.
If you have no female friends around to vouch for you, male friends can work in a pinch. Not a wingman, that's for bars. These people are not here looking for a date, at least not all of them. Find a dude you know, ask him to introduce you to his cousins/sisters, whoever. If your friends don't want you to date their cousins, it's back on you to fix yourself.
If you have no friends, you skipped an essential step! You need to focus on making friends first, and maybe in a couple hours you can get to know their friends. Maybe you'll get a girl's number by becoming friends with her friend's boyfriend in a couple hours, or maybe it'll take 3 months.
You can't expect to get laid just because you lurked ominously over some girls at a party.
It sounds like you're nervous, and that will hold you back. You should probably go to a bar, and get 10 girls to turn you down. Maybe 20, just so you're sure it won't kill you. Then you'll be ready for the next wedding, where you might actually get a date!


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mist42nz
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 04:24 PM (#60864)

You look desperate so you won't get a partner to dance, unless it is someone every more desperate or disfunctional than yourself.
Find something better to do. Take a book, or a mp3 player. At least then you're not wasting your evening.

Most women have one major interest. Themselves. Their next major interest is impressing their friends about themselves.
How did your plan slot into her interests. Not At All.

She wants to be impressed or at least comfortable. Get clean, tidily dressed, and act self-assured (but not arrogant).

You don't get "rejected", you ask a few people (gender unimportant) about who they are, do they know such and such, heck to break up a clique even "hi, excuse me, whats the time" - any oneliner. Then ask if they know (pick a random person). AND then move on. If you get a chatter (and many of those women would rather be somewhere else - listen to the "conversation" - it's not a discussion, they just take turns reciting their crap) then chat. If they don't feel like dancing, if you still feel like YOU want to ask them after a brief chat, do so. But still not a rejection... just ask her if she can think of anyone who wants to dance! If not move on.
If they don't want to chat it's not a rejection, its just an asshat that has no time for others, not what YOU want, move on.

It's called conversation. there's no "fail"/"reject" only 'hello' and 'moving on'. Be friendly, but not "nice and polite and dishwashy".

As for the schmuch above "going to bars to buy drinks for a woman" - what a sucker! Why don't you just buy them a house now, and install yourself as the paypig payer and doormat accessory.


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zmortis
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 05:42 PM (#60865)

First off, unlike the common portrayal of movies, weddings and wedding receptions are usually horrible places to "pick-up" women. They are usually venues packed with couples and relatives of the couple getting married. There are just too many chances to have a major screw up in very public view of people who know you.

The few "odd girl out" women at weddings are either there with a date, are married, or they are going to flock together with their friends for protection. They are not there looking for a date (or dance) with a stranger unless they are desparate.

The secret to successfully picking up any woman at any gathering or event like this? Learn to quickly identify either the desparate woman, or the slut who just isn't too picky about who she bangs. It is the same in any venue. The ones who aren't going to huddle up for defense, and who will accept any positive attention thrown their way are your best shot at a dance or a make out session.

These kinds of women are usually also the most fun in the short term. Their inhibitions are low, and they will go to town for someone interested in them. The down side is that many of these women are long term relationship disasters. Their insecurities and slutish behavior don't stop when you're out of sight. They will usually jump from guy to guy, or latch on to any guy who shows positive attention with a leach like intensity and not let go.

So unless casual one night stands with crazy desparate women are your particular cup of tea, my advice is to give trying to find a date at any event (wedding, party, concert, etc.) a pass. You need to find the date before the event, and bring her along. You'll be able to find a much better long term relationship partner that way.

Now before anyone takes offense at my portrayal of women here, this advice can be gender reversed and be just as true. Men like the original poster can be desparate, and many men are certainly prone to be sluts.

Desparate men like the OP make horrible long term relationship material. Most women know and understand this just like guys do. This is why they huddle up and block him out. The only true long term solution is to learn to not be desparate. I'm as anti-social as they come at times, but I never have a problem walking up to a stranger and talking to them if I need to. I can open up a casual conversation at any time I need because of one simple fact, I'm not desparate for acceptance or approval from them. If they turn a cold shoulder to me, I simply shrug and move on without caring. It is just time to think "next" and move along. When you lose the desparate needy feeling, then you can just simply be yourself and the people who like you will automatically gravitate to you, and those who don't will gravitate away. When you find that woman who gravitates to you, then you know you have potential together. It really is as simple as that.


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wolfrun65
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 03:11 PM (#60881)

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Here are a few quick things that I picked up over the decades of parties, weddings, and other social gatherings.
1: Idle chatter: don't look to break up a gaggle, but look to interact with them...all of them. This lets the group as a whole to gauge how you interact. You are not looking for a date or targetting a single person here.
2: Hit & Run: no, I am not talking about driving either. At parties & social gatherings, people will be around for a few hours. Don't try & pick & choose people. Give yourself 10 minutes or so to talk to a group then move on to another group. This releases you from the pressure idea that someone is going to reject you, you are just getting a interaction going with the entire party.
3: Reassessment: once you have done your rounds, then you look at picking up on more detailed discussions. Also, at some point or another you may have met up with other people flying solo. I found it is easier to interact with a group of people when you have your own group of people (even if you hardly know them).

There is no surefire solutions, but confidence is usually the biggest hurdle.


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rhahael
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Friday, January 20, 2012 - 03:56 AM (#60885)
In Response to changa (#60861):

I don't live in US/UK (like majority around here) so I just thought: You people out there are probably a very screwed one crowd if 25% of women are raped (men AND women alike, any sane person easily avoid getting gotten into or even exposed to that kind of dreadful situation).

If you people really need to "some way to reassure them you're not a risk" I do change my advice: just ignore and avoid women altogether. Your world is broken, wait until it gets fixed.


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jboothby
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 07:56 PM (#60908)

Look, if you go at them like a subhuman little supplicant with your hat in your hand, of course they spurn you. Look, ask them a question or insult them if you must, but get a response. Even honesty is a great policy. Hi, I'm bored and you look amazing, would you like to dance? If she says yes, Great! If she shoots you down, tell her that's okay, she's got a crooked nose and see if she argues. Just keep at it. Face time is all.


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acegas
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 07:46 PM (#60915)
In Response to rhahael (#60885):

Dear Rhahael
The 25% statistic (25% of women in the US will be abused in some form or other at some point in their lifetime) is unfortunately very true. It is also needs to be publicized more.

That said, it is lower than the world's average, which is closer to 33% (check out Amnesty International's website).

I don't know where you are from, and that is certainly not the issue here, but I urge you to look up the statistics of your country. You might be horrified (I know I was when I confirmed that number for the US) and moved to action.

Violence against women is a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

Apologies for hijacking the thread, but I thought the issue is important enough to call out.


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diamaniano
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Re: Can't ask women out (Score: 0)
posted Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - 08:03 PM (#60952)

I feel compelled to sort out a few things here about rape. According to the Rape Abuse Incest Nation Network (RAINN) only 1 in 6 women have been the victim of attempted or completed rape in her lifetime, not 25%. Furthermore 2/3 of women that were victims of rape knew the offender. 73% of all sexual assaults were perpetrated by non-strangers. 38% of rapist were friends or relatives of the victim. Those are some of the statistics about rape. Furthermore comparing the incorrect statistic that 25% of women are raped to one in four people that you meet will rape you is ridiculous. Yes there are some bad people in the world but don't make out every person in the world to be one of them. The average guy or girl you meet during your day is just that; average. Most likely they are not rapists, murders, or thieves. As for the original poster I am sorry I don't have any good advice for you as I suffer from the same level of shyness. I hope that one day soon you find someone who can see past your shyness and awkwardness and see you.

For further information on Rape and sexual Assault please visit
www.rainn.org


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