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POLL RESULTS: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass?: (28 comments)
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POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass?

Friday, May 04, 2012 - 07:50 AM

Q.: I've been friends with Marie for several years. A few weeks ago, several couples went on a camping trip. As we were cleaning up from dinner one evening, Marie's husband said he was going for a short hike and asked if anybody wanted to join him. Thinking nothing of it, I accepted his invitation. Once we were pretty far removed from the others, he cornered me against some trees and told me how attractive I am, and how nobody would ever have to know. It was horrifying. I fumbled through an excuse to head back to camp, and stayed glued to my husband for the rest of the weekend. I haven't told anybody. Should I tell me best friend that her husband made a pass at me?

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POLL: Her friend's husband made a pass at her. Should she tell her friend about her husband's attempted infidelity?
 
73% (1396) Absolutely! She needs to know about this!
 
15% (288) Maybe. If she finds out that the husband has made passes at other women, too.
 
2% (47) Nah. Nothing happened. Nothing to report.
 
9% (179) Only if she wants to lose that friend.
1910 people have voted in this poll. (This poll is not active.)
NunyaBidness
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 09:47 AM (#61543)

Yes, she needs to know. That was both infidelitous and very creepy. It suggests the potential for force or violence against you or others.

I would tell your husband, then arrange to meet with Marie and tell her what happened. Insist you never want to be alone with him again, both for your safety and for credibility. Then arrange to meet with her husband as well, who will no doubt insist either you're lying, or it was a misinterpretation and he never said such a thing.

But, you'll have it on record, so when, not if, he does this again, there will be a reportable pattern.

Then make sure you are never alone with him again.

If you were sufficiently intimidated by his actions, you may wish to file a police report first, so there's an official record. You'll have to make a judgment call on that.

Be prepared to be called a liar at least, a conniving whore, a home-wrecker, but stand your ground--you did not approach him, you did nothing duplicitous. Eventually it will come out.

Yes, in the meantime you may lose that friend. Be polite. Odds are she'll come back and say, "You were right," in a few months.


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Luxus
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 10:05 AM (#61544)

I would recommend first acquiring a discreet microphone. Make sure you're in a public environment (such as a restaurant) for your own safety. Then as soon as you're alone with him, discreetly start recording and talk about the other day's event ("were you serious the other day when you said...").

After he acknowledges that this event happened (and that it has been recorded), you'll be able to tell everything to Marie afterwards, with proof.


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Gdman1990
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Yikes (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 10:29 AM (#61545)

Talk about over reaction, 'call the police'?!?
Look tell your husband but don't make any more out of it than that, by all means don't be alone with him but your friend won't thank you, and the police don't care. Also don't waste your money on gadgets. It was a pass, chances are your friend knows who she married and if she doesn't she won't believe you.


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rorirose
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 11:37 AM (#61547)

It comes down to how close you two are. Has she made any complaints about her husband's actions in the past? If so, it's possible that she may believe me, but if this is a first time event ... it's likely that he's been more careful up until now and has been scoping you in hopes that you returned his interest. But, as she knows the kind of man that she's married, she may have already had some similar dealings before.

One thing is for sure, you are likely going to lose your friend. It's going to be painful enough to hear from a friend of her husband's actions. But to be able to face that friend afterwards, whether she believes you or not, is going to be harder. The bottom point is -- would you want her to come to you if it had been your husband that had done this? Whether you believed him capable of it or not, would you want her to admit if he'd made a pass? That is your answer.


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rorirose
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 11:38 AM (#61548)
In Response to rorirose (#61547):

... and I meant that she may believe you, not believe me.


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AlpineBob
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Re: Yikes (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 01:51 PM (#61549)
In Response to Gdman1990 (#61545):

re: police involvement
I think NunyaBidness may have been reacting to the trigger words "cornered" and "horrific". However, given that the initial questioner asks about an attempted pass, not an attempted rape, I must agree that calling the cops is over the top.

As for the actual question...I'm not a good person to ask, because, well, I'm wishy-washy. But here is my take on it anyway:
This is your best friend, whom you love and wouldn't want to be handicapped by not knowing the facts about her husband, right? Then you tell her. And expect her to not talk to you again for, well, ever.
Next time you get together for coffee, I'd start with a hypothetical like this: "If you knew my husband was cheating on me would you tell me?" Work from there to asking, "Would you want to know?" Whatever her reply, your continuation is, "I'm sorry to have to tell you this, because it will probably ruin our friendship, but I think you should know your husband made a pass at me."

Or, you could just leave this page open on your browser next time she's over and say, "Wow, check this out!"
When she's read your letter, ask her what she would do. If she doesn't see the parallels to your recent camping trip, and ask you about it, then she is actively trying not to know, and you don't tell her.
Told you I was wishy-washy...
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JonahGrimm
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 02:50 PM (#61550)

... I hate to say this, as it sounds so pretentious, but why is it every time the advice revolves around whether or not to tell someone the truth about something major, the advice gets so ... well... wishy-washy?

Personally, I think it's an odd sort of self-preservation. Poster, if you don't say anything at all, it is unlikely there will be any repercussions. You'll keep a friend, that marriage will be intact, and you'll avoid having to be the person that actually did the right thing.

The right thing is easy: tell /your/ husband, then tell your friend. Telling the truth may be painful, and it may be difficult - but it is never wrong. You're not hiding refugees here - you have a friend whose husband has no respect for his own marriage or yours, who is in a situation about which they have no idea.

Yes, you may lose a friend over it.

Yes, it may cause a certain amount of drama.

Turn the tables: wouldn't YOU want to know? Why is it we suddenly get all leery of just being a good friend to people we care about?

Bah.

The thing that makes this hard is the waiting: you went on the trip, this event happened, and you didn't say anything immediately. The more time passes between the original event and the reveal, the more potential there is for there to be suspicion of ulterior motive. After all, if it was a big deal.. why didn't you say something initially?

However, no matter the circumstance, it's better to have said something than to show up after the inevitable reveal in the future and commiserate with your story about how you could have told this person days, months, or years ago.. but didn't so that they could say in this ultimately damaged relationship longer without resolution.

These people telling you to ignore it? That's not being a friend, and it's certainly not even close to ethical or right. it's just.. easy.


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Garwulf
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 03:39 PM (#61551)

Well, variation on a theme here.

First, what he did was entirely inappropriate, particularly seeing as both you and he are married to different people. So do not feel bad about what you do next...

And I would suggest that your next step be to tell your husband what happened, and then between you and your husband figure out what to do. You'll probably get a better plan of action that way than you will from here.


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zmortis
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Friday, May 04, 2012 - 05:02 PM (#61552)

Personally I think your husband needs to know, and he needs to take it up with her husband. Preferably with a baseball bat.


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abb3w
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 01:13 AM (#61553)
In Response to Luxus (#61544):

...don't record without checking that you're in a one-party recording state. Making a pass is stupid, and might give his wife grounds for divorce, but probably not outright illegal; in some cases, recording without all-party consent might be a felony.

But IAmNotALawyer.
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Murgatroyd
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 1)
posted Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 02:57 AM (#61554)

Apart from telling Marie ... how could you not tell your husband?!

Unless you secretly want him to make another pass at you, you won't ever want to be in a one-on-one situation with Marie's husband ever again, right? Well, you'll need to explain to your husband why you're avoiding this guy, because if your two couples socialize, the situation will arise again.

And don't you think that your husband has a right to know what this clown thinks of your marriage?


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DavidArgall
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 03:05 AM (#61555)
In Response to JonahGrimm (#61550):

There are a fair number of wives, and husbands, who would not want to know. As in the story of the hungry arab and the 3 figs. Cutting the first two open and finding them rotten, he simply ate the last one without checking.
So you might be doing her no favor by telling her. And for that matter, hubby does not sound like an experienced seducer of the neighbors. So this may be the first try, and there is at least a hope he won't try again. So maybe everything will be fine if you do nothing.
Now that is somewhat against the odds. More likely than not, she will want to know, and/or he will keep trying until he is caught, but that is hardly a certainty. So approach the subject cautiously. Make sure she wants to know and that this was not just a one-time event.


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AlpineBob
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 05:14 AM (#61556)
In Response to JonahGrimm (#61550):

Well said, JonahGrimm! Telling her friend is the right thing to do.
But she already knew it was the right thing. She's looking for a way to get out of it, or she would have done it already without asking a bunch of random people on a website.

PS Telling her own husband is also the right thing, but she shouldn't encourage her husband to take a bat to the cad, as someone else suggested. He isn't worth it - assault charges are no joke.


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tbright1965
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 11:30 AM (#61557)

Both the friend and her husband need to know the truth about this guy.

I think it's good that she didn't take him up on his offer. She learned that it's not a good idea to be alone with someone of the opposite sex.

I can hear it now, it's not the 1950's anymore. That's true. But what is also true is there are also all sorts of knuckleheads out there as this guy demonstrated.

Even if it didn't happen, there is the whole matter of appearances. What does it look like? Not to mention it simply puts your marriage at risk. Nothing may happen the first time, but what if you start going on hikes, or bike rides or whatever on a regular basis?

That could be fertile ground for someone wanting to betray their spouse.

People deserve to know the truth about their relationships. Her husband needs to know so he can protect his marriage from this knucklehead. The friend needs to know so she can have the complete truth about the state of her marriage and her husband's behavior.

A true friend tells the complete truth. A loving spouse is 100% open and honest with their mate.

There will be many who will suggest hiding the details, or feeling out the situation. Don't be wishy-washy. Display good character and tell both your husband and your friend about what happened.


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DanialArin
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 11:36 AM (#61558)
In Response to Luxus (#61544):

Be careful with the hidden microphone thing. There are some places where recording someone without their knowledge either makes it inadmissible as evidence, or may actually be a crime.


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DanialArin
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 11:55 AM (#61559)
In Response to AlpineBob (#61556):

Bob, while she could have been looking for someone to talk her out of it, she could also be looking for someone to talk her into it. Or just so afraid of the potential impact on the friendship as to be nearly paralyzed. Asking here doesn't usually get back to the others involved, so it's relatively safe-ish.

That said:
1. I agree with most of the others, you need to tell your own husband if you haven't already. Unless he'll react violently to you being on the receiving end of unwanted attention, but most men would get that it's not your fault.

2. Your friend deserves to know she needs to be on look out for the possibility her husband might again try something stupid. Make a point that you shot him down, offer rejected and will stay rejected, but she needs to watch her back. Whether she believes your or not, this could get messy, so brace yourself for an earthquake.


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Murgatroyd
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 1)
posted Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 01:38 AM (#61560)

And by the way, this woman really needs to work on her assertiveness and sense of self-worth:

It was horrifying. I fumbled through an excuse to head back to camp, and stayed glued to my husband for the rest of the weekend.

WTF? She shouldn't have to fumble through an excuse. She should be able to say to this ambulatory turd:

"I'm a married woman and I love my husband. You're going to tell me you were joking, and you're never going to make this joke again. If you don't, I'm going to march back to camp and tell your wife and my husband what you did. And if you so much as lay a finger on me, I'm going to scream, and you're going to be very, very sorry."


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eoraptor
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 04:04 PM (#61562)

Of course you tell someone, you tell anyone That was not flirtatious, it was downright predatory. The guy maneuvered you into a situation where, had he wanted to, he could have done things to have his way, and from the sounds of it, you are not the sort of woman to do anything to defend herself.

He didn't just take you on a hiking trip, he led you way the fuck out into the wilderness and then pinned you against a tree. Your friend needs to hear about that sort of behavior, as does your husband, and possibly the authorities. Yeah, you may have to play the bitch, but better to let someone know now, before someone else gets pinned to a tree and doesn't come away scot free?


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countriebabe08
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Monday, May 07, 2012 - 12:37 AM (#61563)

She needs to know. This has happened to me, and while it took me a while (a couple months) to get up the nerve, I finally decided I had to tell my friend. What kind of friend would I be if I didn't? Anyway they broke up right after and he moved away. Don't tell anyone else, just her, if she wants anyone to know she will tell, just be sure to have her know not to use your name.
it is going to hurt your friend at first. But trust me, she deserves to know.


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whatwouldIknow
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Monday, May 07, 2012 - 06:45 PM (#61569)

first, I state that you need to let your friend know.

Second, I wonder if her friend ALREADY KNOWS? The general assumption here is that this guy is playing around without his spouse's consent, which might not be the case at all.

Third, I agree with the above mention about being assertive when refusing the advances. It's difficult to remain calm, I know, but running back and hiding behind your husband? Was that really necessary?

Fourth, after you talk to your friend about it, you should mention it to your husband. Get someone else involved. Keeping quiet about it won't help at all.


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spzeidler
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 04:44 PM (#61573)
In Response to Murgatroyd (#61560):

It's easy to be courageous when the party you are afraid of is not twice as strong as you are, and you aren't out of earshot of any help, and violence of the sort you are afraid of happening does not regularly get brushed off as "guys being guys" and victim-blaming and -shaming.

Cue the guy that basically said she was at fault for being frightened by the guy, because she should have known better than to be alone with a guy in the first place. Because that will work for a woman who is not living in a harem under a burqa, right? Because it's never the attacker who should have kept their hands (and other body parts) to themselves, it's always the victim who should have acted differently.


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Murgatroyd
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:49 AM (#61576)

Cue the guy that basically said she was at fault for being frightened by the guy, because she should have known better than to be alone with a guy in the first place.

I don't know who the hell you think you're replying to, but it isn't me.

My point is that you can choose to spend your life cowering in fear, or you can do something about the problem. Even if she was intimidated and afraid at the time he made his move, she had ALL GODDAMN WEEKEND to tell her husband what happened, and to warn Mr. Scumbag that if he ever, EVER tried anything like that again he'd be losing a couple of meat-marbles and probably his wife as well. But she hasn't told anyone, and even several weeks later she's still dithering about what to do.

It's easy to be courageous when the party you are afraid of is not twice as strong as you are, and you aren't out of earshot of any help, and violence of the sort you are afraid of happening does not regularly get brushed off as "guys being guys" and victim-blaming and -shaming.

What century do you live in? Do you really believe that her husband would laugh and brush off the forcible rape of the woman he loves? If so, you are one sick puppy. Sane people do NOT laugh off shit like that.


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spzeidler
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 04:57 PM (#61579)
In Response to Murgatroyd (#61576):

re the guy that said she should have known better than to be alone with someon of the opposite sex, that was comment http://www.courting-disaster.com/forums/CDchat/916 8/comment.html?cid=61557 and an example of victim-blaming.

You write:
Even if she was intimidated and afraid at the time he made his move, she had ALL GODDAMN WEEKEND to tell her husband what happened, and to warn Mr. Scumbag that if he ever, EVER tried anything like that again he'd be losing a couple of meat-marbles and probably his wife as well.

But you also wrote: If you don't, I'm going to march back to camp and tell your wife and my husband what you did. And if you so much as lay a finger on me, I'm going to scream, and you're going to be very, very sorry.

To which I replied that it's easy to be brave when you are not the one being pinned to a tree by someone twice as strong as you are, out of the earshot of help, when screaming will at the utmost scare the local wildlife.

You also write: What century do you live in? Do you really believe that her husband would laugh and brush off the forcible rape of the woman he loves? If so, you are one sick puppy. Sane people do NOT laugh off shit like that.

I live in a century where women still get killed because they had the bad taste to let themselves get raped. By their own family, too.

I live in a century where an eleven-year-old girl gets gang-raped by 18 men and the New York Times finds it was her fault because of the way she dressed, not the poor, poor rapists'.


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Murgatroyd
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:49 AM (#61580)

re the guy that said she should have known better than to be alone with someone of the opposite sex ...

Did a guy write that? How do you know? I have no idea who tbright1965 is ... but I suspect that he or she was being a bit facetious or sarcastic.

But you also wrote:
in a different, earlier comment ***
If you don't, I'm going to march back to camp and tell your wife and my husband what you did. And if you so much as lay a finger on me, I'm going to scream, and you're going to be very, very sorry.

To which I replied that it's easy to be brave when you are not the one being pinned to a tree by someone twice as strong as you are, out of the earshot of help, when screaming will at the utmost scare the local wildlife.

Yes, and the later comment to which you replied addressed that point! I repeat:

"Even if she was intimidated and afraid at the time he made his move, she had ALL GODDAMN WEEKEND to tell her husband what happened ..."

Care to respond to that?

You also write: What century do you live in? Do you really believe that her husband would laugh and brush off the forcible rape of the woman he loves? If so, you are one sick puppy. Sane people do NOT laugh off shit like that.

I live in a century where women still get killed because they had the bad taste to let themselves get raped. By their own family, too.

Your comment is stunningly non-responsive to mine. I'll ask again: Do you really believe that her husband would laugh and brush off the forcible rape of the woman he loves? Or, for that matter, an attempted rape?

I live in a century where an eleven-year-old girl gets gang-raped by 18 men and the New York Times finds it was her fault because of the way she dressed, not the poor, poor rapists'.

Well, there ya go! I said "sane people," not the crew at the New York Times.

Do you have a link to whatever case you're talking about? I can't help wondering whether there might be a bit more to the case than what you've told us.

So let me ask you an honest question: given the circumstances, what should the Original Poster have done at the time, and what should she do now? Do you have any constructive advice?


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Garwulf
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Re: POLL: Passing fancy... or a fancy pass? (Score: 0)
posted Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 07:57 PM (#61583)
In Response to Murgatroyd (#61580):

I had the same reaction, so I did a Google search and looked it up. The link is here (warning, unsettling content ahead): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/09assault.htm l?_r=1

And, frankly, having read the article, the New York Times is guilty of framing the story in a very unfortunate implications way, it did not explicitly blame the girl. I'm sorry, but while the attitudes the article presented from the townspeople were absolutely sickening, the reporter did not himself cast a value judgement, and he did write a follow-up article that did not blame the victim in any way (and is even more horrifying, so I'm not linking to it).


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